joshhhy says

What does that even mean? Rifle spread is already... what 2 degree? How does one 'improve accuracy of rifles'? Give entire marine team aim assist?

Thought it was 7~. I can't find the number anywhere though.

Rifle is 3 and HMG is 4.

remove the spread for lmg, that'd be nice

Iots says

remove the spread for lmg, that'd be nice

Removing spread on weapons is actually a nerf for any marine player not in premiere at the moment. If you wanted to buff marines you would actually increase the rifle spread to 4 degrees.

inb4 hera WTB LG IN NS2!!!!

Golden says

Iots says

remove the spread for lmg, that'd be nice

Removing spread on weapons is actually a nerf for any marine player not in premiere at the moment. If you wanted to buff marines you would actually increase the rifle spread to 4 degrees.

I see your point, but i'd still want it. :p

LMG rifle barrel upgrade? If researched reduces spread? Lower divs can ignore it if it indeed hurts them?

I'm only half serious though. I don't want to keep shaking up the pot

Switching topics, I'd like the hallucination ragdolls to be put back into comp mod if that's possible. If the main reasoning behind removing it was because it would possibly hide real players or whatnot, then with NS2+'s feature to make all ragdolls quick-dissolve, it's an one-click option to make them slightly less distracting for those who requested it. Sure, it's not an instant poof, but it's a ton faster than it is in vanilla.

However, I didn't see it as much of an issue in the first place, and I wasn't present for the meeting where I (think) it was decided upon, so there might be other reasons mentioned that I'm just not thinking of for why this change was made. At least for me, them poofing or not wasn't the thing that told me whether a lifeform was real in chaotic engagements, it was the score popup on killing a real player that did.

The ragdolls were removed at the request of a group of players saying that they were an issue in the lower divs. Reason being that it made it overly difficult to deduce if you'd killed a real player or not on the field. We went with it because the argument was made that higher division players know pretty much without fail if the lifeform was real or not when it died, removing the ragdoll would only benefit lower skill levels (in effect it raises the skill floor in this area) - there was not really any opposition to doing this and it appeased several people, so here we are.

Here's the snippet from the meeting where it was discussed, thanks a lot to Mega once again for recording and posting them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrkMh9mFD9c

@feathermonster :
Yeah sure, but then again, if it stops confusing a certain group of people and doesn't alter gameplay in the end, I don't see why it's a problem. Yeah score pop up is what's telling you if you killed a lifeform, but in a messy engagement where you have your crosshair on something, you bring up up your minimap for a few sec, you're listenning to your mates about some kind of focus or I don't know, I reckon that you might wonder if the score really popped up or not. Kill feed is confusing, hallucinations in themselves are confusing too, but instant poof might help a bit and bring clarity.
Plus, this won't affect Shade play, if you kill one or two hallucinations, harm is already done, you've wasted half your clip or your entire clip shooting at a fake fade/onos, you have to reload, change focus, this takes time and is confusing in itself.
So I don't see why this change is a problem.
I agree with rantology here. It's good to clarify things in general if a small group asks for a certain change AND mostly if this change doesn't alter gameplay for other divs/players.

random idea: change nano shield into what mucous is now. HP shield with a cooldown

This solves the whole 5 seconds of invincibility stuff while still making it a brute-force type of ability as opposed to the mobility option of catpacks. numbers are much more granular with a hp shield for balancing purposes.

something like 3 tres for 75-100 hp? iounno numbers can be changed a ton

GLs and HMGs are still super retarded to deal with as aliens early game and both are viable early game. GLHF lifeforms.

Cr4zy_ says

GLs and HMGs are still super retarded to deal with as aliens early game and both are viable early game. GLHF lifeforms.

How do you think to improve those without making them super useless late game? In my opinion, they're fine at the moment, no need to change. You should have enough RTs to focus only on AA and their research that means you cannot upgrade your levels of weapons and armor in the meantime, at least for early game.

Neither of those weapons requires upgrades to be effective though. 1/1 is good enough hell 0/1 is good enough. But a GL is almost 1 shot lerk or 3 shot fade and with the completely op impact detonation on them that's not a hard thing to do at all.

HMG just doesnt fit even after the many attempted balance changes to it (even those I recommended) it fucks with balance too much.

Cr4zy_ says

Neither of those weapons requires upgrades to be effective though. 1/1 is good enough hell 0/1 is good enough. But a GL is almost 1 shot lerk or 3 shot fade and with the completely op impact detonation on them that's not a hard thing to do at all.

HMG just doesnt fit even after the many attempted balance changes to it (even those I recommended) it fucks with balance too much.

Well, I agree about HMGs, those are things I do not think like balanced and shouldn't have been added on CompMod but whatever. It made that said strategy very efficient and this is not the first time people tell me about that. I'm not going to restart the silly debate HMGs anyway but this weapon cannot be viable and balanced in any way for competitive and NS2 in general. That is too strong against every lifeforms.
Honestly, I don't see any issue with the current GL, yeah they're strong if people buy one and are supported/covered by some shotguns or/and HMGs but are pointless against Fades or Lerks, except if you're a pro-GL-aimer and can anticipate your hits and the alien moves (I know some of them like that though).

I don't read all the previous posts. But smth with the HMG crushes my mind about strategy games. The upgrades don't really affect the HMG compared to other weapons.
I have another thing in my mind. Change the dmg at start to 12 and increase it per upgrade to +2. It would decrease the power of the HMG at start and would have the same power at the end.

I don't really talking about balancing (a bit). There is just no logic about upgrading....

Pelargir says

Honestly, I don't see any issue with the current GL, yeah they're strong if people buy one and are supported/covered by some shotguns or/and HMGs but are pointless against Fades or Lerks, except if you're a pro-GL-aimer and can anticipate your hits and the alien moves (I know some of them like that though).

This was some bad GLing but it still resulted in 2 dead fades and a lerk. The jetpack makes it considerably more effective because you no longer have to worry about escaping half the time you just fly away. But even so well positioned GL fucks up lifeforms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFQDNPat7Cw

Then of course there are the times in that game where HMGers do 80% damage to an onos solo. :/

i've found it really odd that there's been no changes to the damage GL does, not saying crazys vid is the best example of all time but ever since the jetpacks were "fixed" there's been more than enough of JP/GL madness for everyone to witness how ridiculous the damage it does to lifeforms is.

Though, is it too late to do any changes to compmod?

how about remote controlled GL drones, buyable in the proto lab? controlled from inside a small metal box which you can stack on top of the CC.

east says

how about remote controlled GL drones, buyable in the proto lab? controlled from inside a small metal box which you can stack on top of the CC.

That's for NS3, stop spoiling.

Iots says

enough of JP/GL madness for everyone to witness how ridiculous the damage it does to lifeforms is.

You mean in Hilarius pick up games when everybody is drunk?

One last change before season 3 officially kicks off:

HMG damage is now back to puncture damage type (from normal) - this means it will once again be less effective against structures (this should reduce the effectiveness of mass HMG comps)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaHOo85H_tg

:((((( i haz no power

I'm really curious about that. Is there someone using the stab ability? I guess this ability need a discussion.

Apart from the stab ability I think webs, adrenaline and camouflage (or whatever that cloaking trait is called) need discussion aswell (maybe babblers too)

Compmod creator ignoring is really stronk....

I am not sure what you're expecting a reply to LyDDa. You simply asked if anyone was using 'Stab' with their fades and suggested maybe there should be a discussion about the ability.

What are your impressions with the ability? Should it be adjusted because it's too weak/powerful? Is the timing of the ability not correct? Do you feel it doesn't fit the way a fade is typically played? There are a lot of things you can say about 'Stab', but you don't mention what you dislike, like, or want to change about it. The more information you give in your post, the more likely you will receive an informed response regarding it. I will do my best here though and assume you simply do not like it at all and want it gone, possibly replaced with something unknown.

In my opinion, the largest obstacle for 'Stab' is that it unlocks on Biomass seven (which requires three hives). There are other, stronger abilities and third hive traits that are more worthwhile to prioritize as well as the need to secure more ground with Crags/Shades/Shifts/Whips/Cysts. Aliens do not typically sit on three hives for very long; either they will win shortly after or marines will kill one of the three. So the time a fade will ever have the opportunity to use 'Stab' is minute.

On top of that, the ability requires that you are comfortable enough with the timing of the stab to use it in combat at proper times. Other third hive abilities require less practice and are more intuitive in use. However, there haven't been many proper suggestions for a replacement. The most popular that I've heard is 'Acid Rocket', an ability that Fades had in NS1, but it was ruled out after discussion. If you have a good suggestion, feel free to put your idea out there. Something proper would be: intuitive, fit the role, balanced, and easy to implement.

At the end of the day though, it loops back to the first point; you won't have it for very long. I don't think that 'Stab' in the game the way it currently is, has much impact on the game and changing it to something else may cause imbalance and the payoff isn't there at the moment to worry about it.

If you would like to suggest possible changes to the ability to balance it better (earlier availability, different damage, faster swing, etc.), that would have a higher chance of success in changing it.

Now, on to webs, adrenaline, camouflage, and babblers. This is going to get the same criticism from me. If you want a discussion about something in the game, put your opinion of it out there first as well as what you would like to see adjusted. Simply mentioning an ability or upgrade and saying discuss isn't helpful.

I'm assuming that all of these are being put up because you don't think they're used very often and/or are not worth using comparatively. Let's get babblers out of the way. Babblers will never be strong. I happen to like babblers. I think it's fun for a gorge to give a temporary shield to a skulk at the cost of personal resources. However, in practice, a lot of players complain when it gets used often. It isn't fun or interesting to play against. So that's why they're in the state they are today, used rarely because their effectiveness is about 10% of what it used to be last year. I still use them occasionally as a commander gorge since my resources are unlikely to reach a higher lifeform and it is still a small boost in fights, particularly early engagements.

Now, 'Web' falls in to the same category as the aforementioned 'Stab': it's only on third hive, isn't available often enough to become familiar with use, and isn't initially intuitive. Now, I'm not saying webs are hard to use. They're simple in how they work, but players are not sure where is best to place the webs or when to use them. I would say that overall 'Web' is an underrated and potentially powerful ability. I'd recommend teams use it more to secure escape routes when you push instead of relying solely on bonewalls to save retreating lifeforms.

I'm going to go ahead and talk about 'Adrenaline' and 'Camouflage' briefly since I've gone on a bit of a rant here, but abilities are easier to balance in my opinion than upgrades. Abilities apply to one lifeform and their timing is manageable through Biomass. Upgrades, on the other hand, apply to all lifeforms and because of this have to be simple (extra armor, extra speed, less sound, etc.). There are limited ways you can upgrade all lifeforms without making it too complex. 'Camouflage' is most useful early in the game, especially if your team stays on one or two veils instead of rushing to three. Later in the rounds it becomes less used, but I think it has reached a good spot since it was decoupled from 'Silence'.

'Adrenaline' is just not very good and may need to be adjusted. As far as I've observed, Shift is already the least used hive and 'Celerity' is used almost exclusively. The problem is I don't think simply increasing the rate of energy regeneration would make 'Adrenaline' more widely used. As it stands now it is easy enough to manage your energy through practice that you will never need it. Previously you would to see Fades with it prior to 'Metabolize', but now it isn't as useful. Unfortunately, making it harder to manage energy on lifeforms would make aliens overall weaker and, let's be honest, it would be less fun to play. Another solution is to change the ability to something else completely, but that creates more problems than it solves, at least initially.

First, I'm totally disagree about mephilles post before. I think its totally fine.

I'm holding my post mostly very short, because english is not my native language and its hard to explain in the way I would like to. And, I'm holding them short, because I don't want to write a comment to convince you to my favour. I love this game I guess like the most here. There are things which are not in use or are imbalanced. If smth just not fit, it should be discussed by us.

28 September 2014 - 18:57 CEST
#346
I don't read all the previous posts. But smth with the HMG crushes my mind about strategy games. The upgrades don't really affect the HMG compared to other weapons.
I have another thing in my mind. Change the dmg at start to 12 and increase it per upgrade to +2. It would decrease the power of the HMG at start and would have the same power at the end.


9 September 2014 - 18:02 CEST
#218
I would like to offer my ideas about the compmod:

1. Change "Stab" like Swipe with the stab-delay like now.
(its like a suicide action against nearly everything. Its a late research and it has not the power it should have in my opinion)

(I have a new idea, which maybe fits more to your impression. But how? No reply)

I didn't get a single reply of that and a lot of more of my replies. I have the feeling that you need to be trolled, be offense to you, that you react in a reoffense post...
I was totally on the side of the compmod creator and like really every change and thought about this "titus mod" is totally bullshit. But I'm starting to think that ppl just want NS1 back and balance this to NS2. (No offense)

Btw, thanks for your post. Thats all I want...

My new idea about Stab is: remove Stab... The Fade has 2 Metabolize abilities. Why not include a third? The first Metabolize regens energy. The second regens health. You can compare them with the droppable upgrades (spurs, shells) The third metabolize could be smth like to veils. If the fade is using it the fade is invisible for 1 second. (maybe more, maybe less. Dont know. Needs testing)

ok I agree with babblers here and I probably never see camou used because I never see shade hive first in competitive.

For webs: probably a biomass 5 scaling + effected by shade would be awesome for those.

Adrenaline: I think some people use it and I like the idea of it, but it actually only favours gorges a bit and lategame lerks (umbra spam). Maybe change it in a way that lifeforms get a buff when he has more than 100% energy (you know that thicker looking energy bar). Maybe increasing the bite/swipe range or cone (I think it was increased with the storm ability a few builds ago).

The problem with stab imo is it's timer mechanism and the fact you can't use blink without interrupting the attack. So not only is it hard to reliably time your stabs to perfection, you're also forced to move in a very predictable pattern everytime you want to use it, making you an easier target to hit. I probably wouldn't even use it if it were available on one hive.

My suggestion would be to remove all movement restrictions. Allow fades to tap blink during the stab "countdown". You could also turn stab into a charge up attack. The longer you hold it down, the more damage it will do when you release it. And when it reaches it's maximum after x seconds it'll release automatically. Scale it so releasing it really soon will do less damage than a swipe would.

This way you'd have a bit more flexibility when using it, and it would actually be a strong hive3 upgrade.